An Open Comment to Andrew Sullivan
I watched you on the Bill Maher Show last night -- I read your blog regularly -- love your wit, incisiveness, ability to acknowledge points of view not part of your general political philosophy, but I fear that trying to figure out WHY the vote went 3% up for Bush is a doomed venture.
Whether it was due to anti-gay horrors (Tony Blankely on McLaughlin Report saying, "It's not anti-gay..." but not saying "...we just want to make sure they don't have the same legal rights we do, because OUR RELIGION tells us it's wrong.") rigged voting machines and/or dumped votes (as some claim might be the case in Cleveland, i.e., that pickup truck photo and all), an inability to understand what Kerry wanted to do and say even by those of us who wanted to and did vote for him, fear of Mommy thereby rejecting Teresa Heinz Kerry for the more tractable Laura Bush, fear of terrorists --- whatever.
I just want to get to the thing about hate and disdain for the religious beliefs of the "religious right", which you attribute to liberals.
Since you include Michael Moore in the Democratic mix, then I have to do the same (after all, hypocrisy, as described in the bible -- and by Noam Chomsky on that same show -- is failing to apply the same standards to yourself as to others). So --
The Swift Boat Vengefuls -- O'Neill -- same guy, just old and fat that Nixon got in 1972 to attack young Mr. Kerry, same lies, accusing him of conspiring with the enemy, betraying his country. Bush just let it all go, and all the "religious right" either joined in or said nothing.
The former POW's and other vets insisting over and over that Kerry's edited comments before the Senate were not only what he actually said, but what caused the war to go on and on and caused the public to turn against the soldiers, as if the public had not turned against the war long before that. (I guess the neatest trick Kerry did was time travel back to the Johnson administration and cause masses of young folk to chant: "Hey hey LBJ, How many kids did you kill today?")
Ok -- eight years of attack after attack on Bill and Hillary Clinton, after the Republicans in congress stopped Clinton from continuing to go after Osama Ben Ladn after one failed attempt because "You're just wagging the dog, trying to change the subject from Monica."
After accusations of murder, of Hilary being a satanic witch dyke (and to them, a dyke is not a woman wired to loving other women in a physical way as well as emotional, but a monster baby-eating demon who pees on statues of Christ)...
After years of true monsters like the Reverend Wildmon and his hench-demons appearing at the funerals of men who had AIDS-caused deaths and-- as a Christian -- screaming to the parents -- "Your son's going to burn in Hell forever because he's a fag!"
AND NO RELIGIOUS LEADERS IN THE COUNTRY EVER DENOUNCED SUCH BEHAVIOR (well, some have, actually, about his anti-semitism -- a popular thing to oppose -- but not about his raving homophobia.)
After Pat Robertson and Jerry Fallwell snapping out that the murders of 9-11 were the fault of lesbians, witches and women who had abortions.
After Bush et al financing ads telling kids that 9-11 was THEIR fault because the money they paid for the joint they smoked went to terrorists who were laughing behind the scenes.
And quietly passing over the cocaine use of Jeb's daughter, saying it was a personal family matter.
After years and years and years of vicious thugs calling themselves Christians and harming people they don't know and don't care about. After years and years of many many on the "religious right" using their personal beliefs as a club against anyone who doesn't adhere to the same description of moonlight, using their economic clout to buy congressmen --
You have enough memory-loss to accuse liberals of spouting hate?
Of course no one really wanted Kerry to be president except as the most likely person to defeat Bush. Although the hostility from the Bush family for Kerry's dogged pursuit of Iran-Contra and the BCCI scandal (both of which involved Bush-pere -- so should junior have more correctly said, "He's the man who tried to arrest my dad.")
When we see a man manipulate our country into invading another, killing thousands and thousands of civilians, more than a thousand US and UK soldiers and Marines, sending those people into battle the same day he cuts their VA benefits (and he CONTINUES to cut them), antagonizing our allies to the detriment of our future, antagonizing already-incensed Arabs into despair and rage, yelling "Bring it on" from the safety of the oval office to people who have lost family and friends from "collateral damage" and have nothing more left to lose, insulting anyone who doesn't agree with him (or his scriptwriters) using demeaning nicknames and not-so-subtle threats -- and all that and more tied up in a neat red ribbon called "evangelical Christian" and/or "Religious right" ---
DO YOU WONDER WHY WE HAVE A LOW OPINION OF PEOPLE WHO USE THAT LABEL?
A friend from Mississippi once complained to me that we Yankees think everyone from Mississippi is dumb and uneducated but "we've produced great minds, like William Faulkner." I had to tell him gently, "Faulkner is the main reason people think that. "
Similarly, George Bush and Jerry Fallwell (I know, not Evangelical) and Pat Robertson and Jim and Tammy Faye and Reverend Wildmon and a slew of others from Jimmy Swaggart to that Glass Cathedral fellow who dropped the dime on Swaggart --- THEY are the reason we think "Christians" -- those people who act as if they own the copyright on that word -- THEY are the reason we think that about them, and to steal THEIR hypocritical line -- "We hate the sin, not the sinner."
Is it any wonder we are alarmed when they get to write congressional agendas (Contract for America) and when we find our tax dollars going to those particular types of Christians in swing states.
I would say, from his Nazi-financing grandfathers to his own managing of his father's former-SS "ethnic consultants" to the venom quietly injected into the body politic about anyone who crosses him from John McCain on -- I think we have damn good reason to despise that smirking chimp who is going to leave America and the Republican party in ashes, and to include in our antipathy anyone who blindly commits acts of thuggery to help maintain his hold on power.
As to "America-hating," I have said it repeatedly to lurching Jesus-mongers on the street when they ask me why I hate Jesus (or God) to which I say "I don't hate Jesus -- but I really dislike YOU."
(Not You, Mr. Sullivan. I think you're wrong on this, but I admire you.)
I don't hate America -- I love America. I answered the draft call when it came way back then, unlike those Rec Room Patriots who were too goddamn precious to interrupt their careers to do the one thing their country asked of them --- I had a career in progress myself. I love America, but I despise the people who have attacked and shredded and debased the principles on which this country was founded. I am desperately in love with the Constitution.
I despise George W Bush and all the morons he rode in on.
A lot of Americans who love their country also feel that way.
Kind of the way you feel about Noam Chomsky.
Link
Whether it was due to anti-gay horrors (Tony Blankely on McLaughlin Report saying, "It's not anti-gay..." but not saying "...we just want to make sure they don't have the same legal rights we do, because OUR RELIGION tells us it's wrong.") rigged voting machines and/or dumped votes (as some claim might be the case in Cleveland, i.e., that pickup truck photo and all), an inability to understand what Kerry wanted to do and say even by those of us who wanted to and did vote for him, fear of Mommy thereby rejecting Teresa Heinz Kerry for the more tractable Laura Bush, fear of terrorists --- whatever.
I just want to get to the thing about hate and disdain for the religious beliefs of the "religious right", which you attribute to liberals.
Since you include Michael Moore in the Democratic mix, then I have to do the same (after all, hypocrisy, as described in the bible -- and by Noam Chomsky on that same show -- is failing to apply the same standards to yourself as to others). So --
The Swift Boat Vengefuls -- O'Neill -- same guy, just old and fat that Nixon got in 1972 to attack young Mr. Kerry, same lies, accusing him of conspiring with the enemy, betraying his country. Bush just let it all go, and all the "religious right" either joined in or said nothing.
The former POW's and other vets insisting over and over that Kerry's edited comments before the Senate were not only what he actually said, but what caused the war to go on and on and caused the public to turn against the soldiers, as if the public had not turned against the war long before that. (I guess the neatest trick Kerry did was time travel back to the Johnson administration and cause masses of young folk to chant: "Hey hey LBJ, How many kids did you kill today?")
Ok -- eight years of attack after attack on Bill and Hillary Clinton, after the Republicans in congress stopped Clinton from continuing to go after Osama Ben Ladn after one failed attempt because "You're just wagging the dog, trying to change the subject from Monica."
After accusations of murder, of Hilary being a satanic witch dyke (and to them, a dyke is not a woman wired to loving other women in a physical way as well as emotional, but a monster baby-eating demon who pees on statues of Christ)...
After years of true monsters like the Reverend Wildmon and his hench-demons appearing at the funerals of men who had AIDS-caused deaths and-- as a Christian -- screaming to the parents -- "Your son's going to burn in Hell forever because he's a fag!"
AND NO RELIGIOUS LEADERS IN THE COUNTRY EVER DENOUNCED SUCH BEHAVIOR (well, some have, actually, about his anti-semitism -- a popular thing to oppose -- but not about his raving homophobia.)
After Pat Robertson and Jerry Fallwell snapping out that the murders of 9-11 were the fault of lesbians, witches and women who had abortions.
After Bush et al financing ads telling kids that 9-11 was THEIR fault because the money they paid for the joint they smoked went to terrorists who were laughing behind the scenes.
And quietly passing over the cocaine use of Jeb's daughter, saying it was a personal family matter.
After years and years and years of vicious thugs calling themselves Christians and harming people they don't know and don't care about. After years and years of many many on the "religious right" using their personal beliefs as a club against anyone who doesn't adhere to the same description of moonlight, using their economic clout to buy congressmen --
You have enough memory-loss to accuse liberals of spouting hate?
Of course no one really wanted Kerry to be president except as the most likely person to defeat Bush. Although the hostility from the Bush family for Kerry's dogged pursuit of Iran-Contra and the BCCI scandal (both of which involved Bush-pere -- so should junior have more correctly said, "He's the man who tried to arrest my dad.")
When we see a man manipulate our country into invading another, killing thousands and thousands of civilians, more than a thousand US and UK soldiers and Marines, sending those people into battle the same day he cuts their VA benefits (and he CONTINUES to cut them), antagonizing our allies to the detriment of our future, antagonizing already-incensed Arabs into despair and rage, yelling "Bring it on" from the safety of the oval office to people who have lost family and friends from "collateral damage" and have nothing more left to lose, insulting anyone who doesn't agree with him (or his scriptwriters) using demeaning nicknames and not-so-subtle threats -- and all that and more tied up in a neat red ribbon called "evangelical Christian" and/or "Religious right" ---
DO YOU WONDER WHY WE HAVE A LOW OPINION OF PEOPLE WHO USE THAT LABEL?
A friend from Mississippi once complained to me that we Yankees think everyone from Mississippi is dumb and uneducated but "we've produced great minds, like William Faulkner." I had to tell him gently, "Faulkner is the main reason people think that. "
Similarly, George Bush and Jerry Fallwell (I know, not Evangelical) and Pat Robertson and Jim and Tammy Faye and Reverend Wildmon and a slew of others from Jimmy Swaggart to that Glass Cathedral fellow who dropped the dime on Swaggart --- THEY are the reason we think "Christians" -- those people who act as if they own the copyright on that word -- THEY are the reason we think that about them, and to steal THEIR hypocritical line -- "We hate the sin, not the sinner."
Is it any wonder we are alarmed when they get to write congressional agendas (Contract for America) and when we find our tax dollars going to those particular types of Christians in swing states.
I would say, from his Nazi-financing grandfathers to his own managing of his father's former-SS "ethnic consultants" to the venom quietly injected into the body politic about anyone who crosses him from John McCain on -- I think we have damn good reason to despise that smirking chimp who is going to leave America and the Republican party in ashes, and to include in our antipathy anyone who blindly commits acts of thuggery to help maintain his hold on power.
As to "America-hating," I have said it repeatedly to lurching Jesus-mongers on the street when they ask me why I hate Jesus (or God) to which I say "I don't hate Jesus -- but I really dislike YOU."
(Not You, Mr. Sullivan. I think you're wrong on this, but I admire you.)
I don't hate America -- I love America. I answered the draft call when it came way back then, unlike those Rec Room Patriots who were too goddamn precious to interrupt their careers to do the one thing their country asked of them --- I had a career in progress myself. I love America, but I despise the people who have attacked and shredded and debased the principles on which this country was founded. I am desperately in love with the Constitution.
I despise George W Bush and all the morons he rode in on.
A lot of Americans who love their country also feel that way.
Kind of the way you feel about Noam Chomsky.
Link
posted by Saintperle at
9:02 AM
